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Why PHP4?


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#1 Guest_echoDreamz_*

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 11:08 AM

I dont understand why there was the decision made to use PHP4... Built your product around a core that is no longer maintained or supported. Why not use PHP5?

Other then that it has been a great product!

#2 Patrick Keil

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 11:44 AM

You have no clue how many users still use PHP4. :roll:

Even major ISPs like 1und1 in Germany still offer PHP4 (they don't force their users to upgrade - we neither).

#3 Guest__*

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:24 PM

My installation is working fine on my server which is using PHP 5.2.4 If it works why complain besides it would be allot of work to rebuild it around PHP 5.

I just want to remind you LiveZilla is Free & they give as good or better Tech Support than most paid software support.

#4 Guest_echoDreamz_*

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:27 PM

mcgyver210 said:

My installation is working fine on my server which is using PHP 5.2.4 If it works why complain besides it would be allot of work to rebuild it around PHP 5.

I just want to remind you LiveZilla is Free & they give as good or better Tech Support than most paid software support.

Just cause it works doesnt mean its right :) Sure it would take alot to redo it. Which is why you do things right the first time.

Yeah I know alot of users still use PHP4, but that is because great scripts like this dont take the Go PHP 5 attitude and design there scripts around PHP5. Also I work for a large hosting provider, and we defaultly give users PHP5 and they still have the option of going back down :)

With that said though, we are also ridding PHP4 once 6 releases.

#5 Patrick Keil

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 07:31 AM

Well, our script works with PHP 4 and PHP 5 as well, so I still don't get where your problem is.

#6 Guest__*

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 07:38 PM

I'm sure the LiveZilla team will make it compatible when it becomes a necessity for now it works on my server with no problems.


Thanks for everything Patrick

#7 Guest_TC25WFNS_*

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 09:50 PM

LiveZilla is written for PHP 5 in PHP 5. I am using it with 5.2.8. Just because it does not use any new features in PHP 5 that would break backwards computability does not mean it is not written in PHP 5.

#8 Guest_echoDreamz_*

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 11:53 PM

Uh no its not. If it was in PHP 5 it would not work in PHP4.

There classes do not take advantage of the new PHP5 OOP features. For instance
                var $InternalGroups;
	var $InternalUsers;
	var $Config;
	var $GroupAvailable = false;
	var $GroupValues = Array();
	var $Result;
	var $ErrorHTML = "''";

Is not PHP5 OOP design it is old style PHP4.

I understand that products need to be accepted for use with everyone, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and write a script that not everyone can use for the better. Nice scripts like this that still use PHP4 style of class design etc are the reasons hosts do not update to PHP5 or provide it as the default version.
http://gophp5.org/

#9 Guest_TC25WFNS_*

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 05:01 AM

PHP 5 does not equal a design philosophy. Developers should use whatever design philosophy they desire. PHP 4 is a subset of PHP 5 and therefore all code that is PHP 4 that uses syntax that has not been removed is PHP 5 code.

var $variable;

Is perfectly valid PHP 5 code. It is viewed the same as public. As long as livezilla turns E_STRICT warning off all should be good. I do agree that once old language features are removed the code should be updated, but that will happen naturally. However, breaking thousands of people's install for the sake of using newer language features is irresponsible until PHP 5 gains more market share. I would agree with you if livezilla development depended on newer language features, but it obviously doesn't.

#10 Guest_echoDreamz_*

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 06:50 AM

PHP5 wont gain marketshare when people are still developing against PHP4 and not forcing hosts to upgrade there installs. Not too mention again PHP4 is not even developed or support anymore. So when a product reaches its EOL it is time to move on. Sure people would need to find new hosts, but if the host does not support PHP5 or doesnt care to stay on top of technologies and support the latest trends it is time to find a new host anyways. PHP5 has been out for almost 5 years to there is no excuse for not updating.

Quote

Many high profile open source projects ceased to support PHP 4 in new code as of February 5, 2008, due to the GoPHP5 initiative, provided by a consortium of PHP developers promoting the transition from PHP 4 to PHP 5.


#11 Derek Punzova

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 04:03 PM

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PHP5 wont gain marketshare when people are still developing against PHP4 and not forcing hosts to upgrade there installs.

You are right but our intention is to keep the installation of LiveZilla as easy and uncomplicated as possible. Supporting PHP4 may be "morally incorrect" but we will respect the decision of our users to stick with PHP4. I really prefer to write PHP5 code but I don't see much advantage for our users by switching to a PHP5 version of LiveZilla (please correct me if I am wrong).
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Kind Regards,
Derek

#12 Guest_echoDreamz_*

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 05:04 PM

PHP5 is quicker the PHP4 as I have tried this with LiveZilla, also yeah there are reasons to make it PHP5 only. #1 - PHP4 is not even maintained by the PHP Group anymore. #2 - Hosts will not ever upgrade so long as developers are still creating stuff to work with PHP4. #3 - PHP5 is still actively developed aginst and has been around for nearly 5 years, so its not like it just came out and everyone is worried about it.

Also if it was up to users im sure we would all still be on Windows 3.11 and DOS. People do not like change, but change is inevidable especially in the computer world.

Also "var" is not perfectly valid code, sure it works but it is a deprecated key word.

I understand the decision to "make the users happy" but sometimes you have to say screw them it is time to upgrade guys and move on. Take Invision Power Board for example, one of the largest forum softwares in the world, IPB v3 will require PHP5. I also do tons of freelance PHP development, and when clients say we need this to work with PHP4, I try to show them reasons why not PHP4, and if they are still hard headed and wont, then I send them on there way.

#13 Derek Punzova

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 05:16 PM

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PHP5 is quicker
Sure, but you can run LiveZilla on a PHP5 server so this is no argument.

As I told you, you are 99% right. But in the end there is no real benefit for the (LiveZilla) user in case we switch to PHP5. :(
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Kind Regards,
Derek

#14 bartucxp

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 01:31 AM

It should support both PHP4 and PHP5 for now, in my opinion.

%60 of the market uses PHP4 now. A great software like Livezilla should support PHP4.

#15 Guest_echoDreamz_*

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 03:04 AM

bartucxp said:

It should support both PHP4 and PHP5 for now, in my opinion.

%60 of the market uses PHP4 now. A great software like Livezilla should support PHP4.

60% of the market still uses PHP4 because 60% of the market hasnt been forced to update because great software like this still allows the use of PHP4.

#16 Derek Punzova

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:55 PM

Quote

%60 of the market uses PHP4 now. A great software like Livezilla should support PHP4
That much? Can't believe it ...
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Kind Regards,
Derek

#17 Guest_echoDreamz_*

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 05:09 PM

dpunzova said:

Quote

%60 of the market uses PHP4 now. A great software like Livezilla should support PHP4
That much? Can't believe it ...

I dont believe it. Most people are smart enough to update once the core of what drives there product is no longer being supported or developed against.

#18 Guest_c.adley_*

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 09:28 PM

You are acting like Livezilla excluding php4 is going to change the world. :lol: Even if Livezilla excluded php4 hosts will still not update or upgrade. Regardless the software works fine and it is not hurting any business keeping it that way. It works on php5 and php4 so what's the big deal again? As much as some people wish, morals and ethics do not make the world go round. If it aint broke dont fix it.

What your saying in lamen terms is this:
"I don't like livezilla because they are using a perfectly fine script that works well on new and even old forms of php! Damn them for not using only php5 to build their software because php4 should be extinct."

Thats child logic. Unless you are getting paid for people using php5 then you have no basis for your argument.

#19 Guest_echoDreamz_*

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 09:45 PM

c.adley said:

You are acting like Livezilla excluding php4 is going to change the world. :lol: Even if Livezilla excluded php4 hosts will still not update or upgrade. Regardless the software works fine and it is not hurting any business keeping it that way. It works on php5 and php4 so what's the big deal again? As much as some people wish, morals and ethics do not make the world go round. If it aint broke dont fix it.

What your saying in lamen terms is this:
"I don't like livezilla because they are using a perfectly fine script that works well on new and even old forms of php! Damn them for not using only php5 to build their software because php4 should be extinct."

Thats child logic. Unless you are getting paid for people using php5 then you have no basis for your argument.

If aint broke dont fix it sure, if it isnt SUPPORTED or DEVELOPED anymore then yes by all means fix it. I was simply asking why LiveZilla wasnt written to support PHP5 and all its additions and features. And PHP4 IS extinct atleast to the PHP developers, and once the developers of the core of which you write say hey we are leaving this behind and not supporting it anymore, it is also time for you to move on with them.

LiveZilla is not a bad product, just another reason why PHP4 will continue to be used and another reasons why hosts will not update.

#20 Guest_aCId_rAIn_*

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 01:24 PM

Maybe all those additions and features aren't really neccesary. I can definately tell you this much; if we all just decided to upgrade our code versions to the new standards, languages like C++, and non OOP languages like pascal, etc would be extint and useless. Windows scripting should be dead as well, Net framework should be dead, along with many other languages and mediums of data com. Maybe PHP4 was a more comfortable language for the LiveZilla team.





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